I have decided to go for a water cooled PC. I have read alot about water cooling in these forums and others and i have a few questions that perhaps could be answered here. Let me first say if any of this information has already been posted on these forums and i have missed it then i am sorry.
Although i have never water cooled a PC before i am a Plumber (something that i hope will help
I notice that the way water cooling seems to work is a single pipe system or "loop" to the CPU,VGA, and chipset i wonder why this is?
There is very little control of a system piped like this. Is it perhaps that the components of contol are not manufactured or that this is simply how is has always been done?
I intent to conctruct the water cooling (rad,fans,pump etc) outside of the PC case and have only the pipework and waterblocks within the case hopefully removing the need for more than a single case cooling fan anybody done this before?
Anybody no of the best types of flow sensors,stats,control programs or other and the best place to install these within a PC case and water cooled system?
this is my first post to thses forums and i would like to thank inadvance anybody who may have any ideas.
I have decided to go for a water cooled PC. I have read alot about water cooling in these forums and others and i have a few questions that perhaps could be answered here. Let me first say if any of this information has already been posted on these forums and i have missed it then i am sorry.
Although i have never water cooled a PC before i am a Plumber (something that i hope will help
I notice that the way water cooling seems to work is a single pipe system or "loop" to the CPU,VGA, and chipset i wonder why this is?
There is very little control of a system piped like this. Is it perhaps that the components of contol are not manufactured or that this is simply how is has always been done?
I intent to conctruct the water cooling (rad,fans,pump etc) outside of the PC case and have only the pipework and waterblocks within the case hopefully removing the need for more than a single case cooling fan anybody done this before?
Anybody no of the best types of flow sensors,stats,control programs or other and the best place to install these within a PC case and water cooled system?
this is my first post to thses forums and i would like to thank inadvance anybody who may have any ideas.
Firstly, welcome, Ando. Now that's out of the way, let's get to the fun bits.
I'm only a novice to water-cooling myself, so I am sure there'll be many better answers that mine, but I believe that most people run a single circuit only if there is some kind of constraint (cost, case size, technical expertise) involved. I have just installed my first attempt at water-cooling (Link), running a triple radiator in a single loop setup, despite having bought a second radiator to add cooling between the cpu and graphics card. The only reason was, as you can see by the pictures at the linked topic, I had NO space to mount it effectively.
If you're going for a more controlled setup, I'm pretty sure we'd all agree that a multi-loop rig is the way to go. It allows for more definitive control over flow rates (and temperatures), as I'm sure you well know. Complexity isn't really an issue once we understand how to fit a circuit, but the ability to do it and make it pretty is often one that prevents most of us from going for a more complex pattern. Lastly, it's also the cost of the project that's prohibitive.
As to your design plans, I have no idea how effective they'd be, but I can't wait to see the pictures! Sounds like an awesome rig, and if it works, you'll be the toast of this place, I'm sure.
Sorry if I patronised you in any way with my rather simplistic manner, but like I said, it's pretty new to me, my understanding isn't as great as I'd like it to be and, at the end of the day, I'm not a plumber.
I had a look at the pics of you machine very nice.
i am looking at something similar only with the radiator etc a bit further away. On the point of radiators and fans i notice that u have the rad flat with the fans on top could it be "on edge" so to speak and then have 6 fans as in 3 sucking 3 blowing allowing more cooling, or same cooling at lower fan speeds?
As for the cooling i am looking into and thinking about a 2 pipe system as in a Flow and Return line to each component, the regulation of the the flow to each of these is something i need to figure out as at the moment i don't seem to be able to find anything but i belive its possible to regulate say the flow to the chip set as lower than the CPU etc and then perhaps have it regulated further by the return temp of the water from each component. Like i say i am new to this and am not sure what parts there are of the shelf but i do think water cooling in some ways as is it as the moment is a little old fashioned ( please no one take offence) i just mean there maybe ways of making the systems more advanced as long as cost is not to high.
I must say I'm curious as to what is going to happen here as you seem to have some ideas already.
There have been attempts to do all outside of the box (search/google "Zalman razerator" for example) even fanless radiators...
The sistem is a simple one as the more cooling you provide and at a decent speed the better it is. That's why you don't reduce the flow at certain components. What you do is create 2 or 3 loops and at low speeds to maintain low noise levels and controlled temperatures.
I am also not an expert as I have only started my own watercooling project a few months ago... links later (can't search it now). Marci, Vincent and others might be able to help you further.
Ideas yes if they are worth further looking into is another thing.
To build something that has been built before and was a failure is not really what i want to do hence the questions and the throwing around of ideas. And if there is any advantage to doing it different or if its a waste of time.
Like you say in your post "What you do is create 2 or 3 loops" until now the only systems i have seen or read about have been single loop (feeding the different blocks) so already i am learning
I have looked at Zalman rezerator and similar things H20 thing from someone but there seems to be differences in reviews as to how good they are.
Thats really why i am considering making my own and writing in these forums.
As for the reserator the first one bombed as the cooling was poor and it was noisy. The second is something that people are warming to. I think that one of the problems (and you may find a way around it) is that it is a single loop and it occupies too much space outside.
Vadim are doing two loops and considering (doing?) 3 as well. And I hope I'm not saying stupid things here
Another thing used for cooling is phase change cooling but that is another ball game as well.
Keep us posted and ask what you need as someone is bound to answer (Vincent and Marci are two fantastic people for this).
I had a look at the pics of you machine very nice.
Thank you. Compared to some of the other uber-beasts on here, it's a veritable Frankenstien's monster of a mod, but as I said before, it was my first, and although I can see faults and things I would do different next time, I'm quietly proud of it. Especially when I realised just how small that case was suddenly going to be with all that kit jammed in there, lol.
ando121 wrote:
i am looking at something similar only with the radiator etc a bit further away. On the point of radiators and fans i notice that u have the rad flat with the fans on top could it be "on edge" so to speak and then have 6 fans as in 3 sucking 3 blowing allowing more cooling, or same cooling at lower fan speeds?
Well, I originally was going to cover the reservoir and radiator with a shroud I had fabricated, as I wasn't sure of the noise factor or, to be honest, whether my "handiwork" was going to be pretty enough to have on show, but it turned out rather well (ie, all my mistakes were covered by kit placement, lol), so I elected not to bother with the shroud for now. Because I had concerns about adding a small tower block to the top of my case, and making it look out of proportion, I wanted the radiator as low as possible, hence the flat mounting. I can see what you mean about doubling up on the fans as a possibility though, and I may give that one a spin when I get the funding up for a new, bigger case. Will let you know the results. I should think that if I ordered another T-Balancer to control the second rank of fans, there'd only be a very nominal increase in noise (as an example of that, since my machine's not been on for long, the rad fans weren't even spinning, to start with, just the two case fans, but all three just kicked in, and the only reason I noticed is that I can see them out of the corner of my eye. No noise increase at all. Lovely).
ando121 wrote:
As for the cooling i am looking into and thinking about a 2 pipe system as in a Flow and Return line to each component, the regulation of the the flow to each of these is something i need to figure out as at the moment i don't seem to be able to find anything
As a very simplistic idea, would tubing with different internal diameter not work to do that? I realise there's no element of fine-tuned control with just that method, and I suspect it'd be a bugger to set up, but it'd probably look pretty special.
ando121 wrote:
but i belive its possible to regulate say the flow to the chip set as lower than the CPU etc and then perhaps have it regulated further by the return temp of the water from each component. Like i say i am new to this and am not sure what parts there are of the shelf but i do think water cooling in some ways as is it as the moment is a little old fashioned ( please no one take offence) i just mean there maybe ways of making the systems more advanced as long as cost is not to high.
Maybe you and the team here can come up with something then. I'm sure the staff will be forthcoming with any information they have that might help you work this out. We all love a good idea, especially one that'll make us sit back and for a while, thinking "Now that is a thing of beauty, elegance and genius. Why didn't I think of/patent that?"
Radiator can be mounted in any orientation - doesn't affect thermal capacity, doesn't affect performance at all.
Parts available off the shelf... when it comes to manifolds and valves etc for parallel systems, everything is standard plumbing / hydraulics equipment purchasable from usual suppliers, but ensure all water-contact points are copper / brass / plastic as opposed to aluminium / steel etc (think galvanic corrosion - nobility scale)
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I intent to conctruct the water cooling (rad,fans,pump etc) outside of the PC case and have only the pipework and waterblocks within the case hopefully removing the need for more than a single case cooling fan anybody done this before?
PC Watercooling has been around for 10 years or so - everything has been done at some point by someone . Google "Waterkeg" - there are off the shelf enclosures available for mounting the equipment in... use the same panel-mount fittings as you would use for plumbing purposes to enter and exit enclosures.
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Anybody no of the best types of flow sensors,stats,control programs or other and the best place to install these within a PC case and water cooled system?
Majority of flowsensors (other than one) restrict flowrate too much. The only one that doesn't is prohibitively expensive. The 2nd best out there is the Swissflow SF800, but it still poses in excess of 20% restriction on flowrate. Majority of temp sensors aren't accurate enough (+/- 0.01 C) to provide any useful temperature data, merely guides. mCubed T-Balancer is a "good" product covering everything you'd need (pump & fan control based on temperature curves and flow curves) but is only accurate to +/- 0.5 deg C on the temp scale, and comes with nasty liq flowrate sensors that severely restrict flow (5mm jet bore restriction on a system with 12.5mm internal diameter tubes - unventuri'd also). Fortunately, you can hook the SF800 up to an mCubed T-Balancer.
No-one uses airflow sensors, just RPM pulse from the fan. Pumps are available with same feature for pump impeller revolutions. Both monitorable via anything capable of monitoring RPM pulse - motherboard bios fan headers, off-the-shelf fan controllers, fan channels on mCubed T-Bal etc etc.
Well i am still looking into and planning this water cooling job
I have been looking at the tube types available and they seem ok however i remembered a type of tube i used some months back 1/2" plastic type tube useing barbs for connection to fittings.
The main difference with this tube is that it can be warmed and bent into very tight bends and once cool will retain that bend.
This enables bends, offsets etc etc to be done to one piece of tube and the tube to remain rigid after. The use of springs to prevent kinking would not be required nor the use of clips on the barbs.
But i think the main advantage maybe that rather than everything having curves (a sort of getting from a to b) in the piping of the water cooling, the pipework itself could become a feature of the cooling system itself with everything being bent to suit the components.
Not sure if this has been tried before and if so why its not used because i cannot see a down side short of a little more time to install the pipe work.
If you bend the pipe, how much does it distort the hole? I.e. I am sure if you only bend this a little it would not give you a problem but a sharp bend might give you flow issues.
I was just thinking that it would be nice to see one of these water cooled machines piped with ridged tube bent to fit. I don't think the flow/resistance would be any greater.
Most don't go for rigid tubing as it prohibits easy removal of individual items during maintenance etc - eg: You just want to pop out a graphics card to add another pencil line to yer voltmod... with rigid tubing, this would be less possible than with flexible tubing.
Anyhoo, rigid plastic tubing has been used in quick-connect / push-fit systems more popular in Germany / mainland Europe for at least 6 years... but folks tend to prefer flexible stuff due to tighter bend radii when having to do a full 180 deg bend etc (eg: GPU to NB, NB to CPU)
1/2" ID rigid plastic tube over 1/2" OD barbs would still need hose clamps to ensure a watertight seal imo. 11mm ID rigid plastic tubing over 1/2" OD barbs wouldn't... but that's assuming you can force rigid plastic over something larger than it's ID without it tearing - down to wall thickness of the tubing in question. The best solution would be 1/2" OD rigid tube, into 1/2" Pushfit connectors from JohnGuest or similar.
Rigid tubing has been taken to the extremes of using copper pipe, soldered etc to match the system... but this also has it's downsides. If case temp is lower than coolant temp, the rigid copper piping acts as a radiator, cooling coolant down further. If case temp is higher than coolant temp, the rigid piping acts as a heater and heats the coolant up.
Thank you. Compared to some of the other uber-beasts on here, it's a veritable Frankenstien's monster of a mod, but as I said before, it was my first, and although I can see faults and things I would do different next time, I'm quietly proud of it. Especially when I realised just how small that case was suddenly going to be with all that kit jammed in there, lol.
for a while, thinking "Now that is a thing of beauty, elegance and genius. Why didn't I think of/patent that?"
. Google "Waterkeg" - there are off the shelf enclosures available for mounting the equipment in... use the same panel-mount fittings as you would use for plumbing purposes to enter and exit enclosures.
